Monday, March 14, 2011

More thoughts on Loot

Bruce and I were discussing loot some more the other night. Neither of us are really keen on the challenge method that Dave proposed previously. I find it a bit confusing and I am concerned with keeping track of the challenges.

Bruce suggested that maybe we convert all of the treasure into cost values, total the cost of the treasure and divide by the number of characters to determine the share. Characters could then use their shares to "buy" items off of the list at cost (i.e. half price).

Refining this idea, I propose the following:

  1. Convert all treasure into its GP cost.
  2. Total the treasure to determine total treasure value (TTV).
  3. Divide the TTV by the number of characters to determine a share. Items deemed as "party treasure" are taken off of the top before the TTV is divided to determine the shares.
  4. Determine a pick order. Do this each time treasure is divided. (no more running pick order)
  5. Each character can use his share to "buy" an item off of the list it GP cost (i.e. half price). Characters would pick in order. Continue picking in order until the treasure is divided or everyone has opted out.
  6. If someone wants to take an item that has a greater value than their remaining share, the remainder of the party must cover the difference from their shares. The picking character will end up with a debt for the next time treasure is split and will receive no additional treasure from the current loot (unless the entire party agrees to allow them to continue adding debt.
  7. Whatever is not picked is sold to fund the remaining shares.

 An example of this system. A party of four characters defeats an evil band of brigands. The loot from defeating these opponents is:
 
730 SP – 73 GP
2000 GP
Jeweled belt buckle with “I fight for glory” on the front – 200 GP
8 – 100 GP pearls – 800 GP
400 GP worth of diamond dust – 400 GP
+1 longsword – 1157.5 GP
+1 dagger – 1151 GP
+1 studded leather armor – 587.5 GP
+2 Cloak of Resistance – 2000 GP
MW Full Plate – 825 GP
Wand of Cure Light Wounds (50 charages) - 375 GP
4 potions of Cure Light Wounds – 100 GP
MW heavy mace – 156 GP
MW Breastplate – 175 GP

The total treasure value is 10,000 GP. Assuming that the Cure Light Wounds wand is tagged as party treasure, the TTV reduces to 9625. The share for each character would be 2406.25 GP.

Let’s assume the pick order is:

Fighter (2406.25)
Rogue (2406.25)
Cleric (2406.25)
Sorcerer (2406.25)

A mock pick would sort out like this :

Pick round 1
Fighter – takes +1 longsword (2406.25-1157.5=1248.75)
Rogue – takes +1 studded leather (2406.25 – 587.5=1818.75)
Cleric – takes +2 cloak of Resistance (2406.25-2000=406.25)
Sorcerer – takes +1 dagger (2406.25-1151=1255.25)

Pick round 2
Fighter – takes MW full plate (1248.75-825=423.75)
Rogue – takes potion of CLW (1818.75-25=1793.75)
Cleric – takes MW breastplate (406.25-175=231.25)
Sorcerer – takes potion of CLW (1255.25-25=1230.25)

Pick round 3
Fighter – takes potion of CLW (423.75-25=398.75)
Rogue – takes potion of CLW (1793.75-25=1768.75)
Cleric – takes MW heavy mace (231.25-156=75.25)
Sorcerer – pass (1230.25)

Pick round 4
Fighter – takes belt buckle (398.75-200=198.75)
Rogue – pass (1768.75)
Cleric – pass (231.25-156=75.25)
Sorcerer – pass (1230.25)

The end result is the characters get the items they picked plus some money and the party has a wand to use as party treasure.

If the same treasure, minus the 2000 GP, was divided, the results would be something like this:

Pick round 1
Fighter – takes +1 longsword (1906.25-1157.5=748.75)
Rogue – takes +1 studded leather (1906.25 – 587.5=1318.75)
Cleric – takes +2 cloak of Resistance (1906.25-2000=-93.75)
Sorcerer – takes +1 dagger (1906.25-1151=755.25)

Pick round 2
Fighter – takes MW full plate (748.75-825=-76.25)
Rogue – takes potion of CLW (1318.75-25=1293.75)
Cleric – pass (-93.75)
Sorcerer – takes potion of CLW (755.25-25=730.25)

Pick round 3
Fighter – pass (-76.25)
Rogue – takes potion of CLW (1293.75-25=1268.75)
Cleric – pass (-93.75)
Sorcerer – takes potion of CLW (730.25-25=705.25)

Pick round 4
Everyone passes.

The end result is the characters get the items they picked and some characters get some money. The party has a wand to use as party treasure. The fighter carries a debt of 76.25 and the cleric has a debt of 93.75. The total debt is 170. The two characters with a positive balance take the GP hit subtracting 85 GP from their remaining totals. That leave the rogue with 1183.75 and the sorcerer with 620.25. Next time treasure is divided the fighter and cleric would have their shares reduced by their debt and the rogue and sorcerer would have their shares increased by a credit of 85 GP each.

I think I like this method. There is not too much extra bookkeeping as we need to determine the costs of items to sell the anyway. The debt and credits would also need to be maintained. Someone should likely be the "banker" to make sure that no one overspends. I think taht this will offer a more even distribution of the wealth and will allow characters that do not have anything they can use in a particular treasure the ability to purchase things that they need because they will have more money to spend.

Thoughts? 

10 comments:

  1. this is the fairest system I've ever heard of.

    but someone will not like it.

    most likely the only wizardy member of the party that believes he should get all the wizardy stuff cause he's the wizard and deserves more loot than everyone else.

    ReplyDelete
  2. I think it encourages the party to keep treasure that they think is useful as it can be "purchased" at half price. Characters can still work side deals, swaps and loans as they see fit.

    I think it will work out that treasure gets divided more often, rewarding the players who attend on a regular basis.

    It seems fair and easy but I am not sure how it will work out in practice.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I'm cool with some version of this.

    @Bruce:
    Why not let the wizard take all the wizard stuff from one adventure and work his debt off in the next? If we're determining pick orders by a running total it will balance out sooner or later.

    @Keith:
    I think there should be a pick order determined by who has the highest positive balance. To start you can have everyone roll d20 or whatever (or to break ties).
    How do you mean treasure will be divided more often? Are you thinking we should let players pick an item as soon as it is IDd? I'm OK with that so long as they arent in debt.

    ReplyDelete
  4. There is certainly room for tweaks. I do not really have stong feelings on the pick order. If we are doing it based upon a running value of gear/wealth, I would guess that means the part timers would pick first.

    What I meant about picking more often was that we get a significant haul where only 4 players are present we might consider dividing it sooner rather than later.

    ReplyDelete
  5. We should just pick for the part-timers then, if they arent there on Divvy Day. Rather than get into a Gordian knot of "who was here for what, and what did he do?" just figure out if someone gets a share or not and pick for him.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Ok. Fair enough.

    What do you think? With these few tweaks do we have a system we can live with?

    We just need to have a method of tracking debts and credits. Again, I am not sure that pick order is really an issues. It should even out over time.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Are we giving followers a half share? I know it's not relevant at the moment but it could come up.

    ReplyDelete
  8. By the rules, followers are supposed to be equipped with the main character's share. As a party we can make exceptions. Followers/cohorts are really no different than an animal companion or eidolon. They do not get their own shares.

    ReplyDelete
  9. An eidolon/animal companion is built into the character class. A follower is a whole different and separate entity. If a player-character got permanently drained 2 levels, would we penalize him by giving him only a half share of treasure?

    Furthermore, animal companions dont NEED treasure apart from barding or a permanent Magic Fang effect. A follower will need significant equipment to make them effective.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I do not follow your arguement. This has nothing to do with how effective your PC is.

    You gain a cohort for the cost of a feat. It is part of your character. It is exactly like a companion, eidolon or familiar. If it dies it can be replaced. Just becuase it is adventuring with the party does not entitle you or it to any additional share of the treasure. The cohort does not hang with the party for personal gain. It does so for their devotion to the character with the Leadership feat.

    Having to equip the cohort is part of the balance of having a very powerful appendage for your character.

    ReplyDelete

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