(This came up last week and I needed to do my research before responding.)
First Dave rants about the spiked chain.
It does still receive the bonus to disarm, the ability to trip and can be used with Weapon Finesse. The only difference in Pathfinder vs. D&D 3.5 for the spiked chain is that it no longer has reach. I am not sure why nor do I really care. It is what it is and I can live with it.
Chain, Spiked - 25 gp S:1d6, M:2d4 Crit:×2/20, 10 lbs. Piercing, Disarm (+2 to attempts), Trip (allows for a trip attack, weapon may dropped to avoid tripping self), Two-Handed
Chain, Spiked: A spiked chain is about 4 feet in length, covered in wicked barbs. You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a spiked chain sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon.
Now Dave rants about the meteor hammer. (Which gets him ranting about the spiked chain again….)
The meteor hammer could be a cool weapon but I do not believe that it invalidates the spiked chain. It costs 4 times more to purchase than a spiked chain. The damage max is the same but the average damage is slightly lower when making a single attack. As a double weapon, the meteor hammer requires an extra feat (Two Weapon Fighting) to use the meteor storm style. It will also cost an additional 600 GP to buy a masterwork version and making one magic will cost more as well.
One more note, the Legacy of Fire Adventure Path, where this weapon is found, was done under 3.5 rules. This item may get updated/changed for the Pathfinder RPG rules. There is a new equipment book coming out in May. It may be included there.
Meteor Hammer -100 gp, S:1d6, M:1d8, Crit:×2/20, 10 lbs, Bludgeoning, Disarm (+2 to attempts), Trip (allows for a trip attack, weapon may dropped to avoid tripping self), Reach 10ft, Double Weapon, Two-Handed.
Meteor Hammer: The meteor hammer is a deceptive and unpredictable weapon, as simple as it is versatile. A typical meteor hammer consists of two spherical metal weights like flail heads attached via a 5-foot length of rope or chain. These weights are whirled and wrapped around the wielder’s body, and can be used for strikes, grabs, and trips. With a meteor hammer, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails). You can also use it to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the meteor hammer to avoid being tripped. If your trip attack is successful, you can choose to forego the knockdown in favor of dragging your opponent 5 feet closer to you. Using a meteor hammer always requires both hands and gives you a 10-foot reach. In addition to the above abilities, the meteor hammer has different effects depending on what style is being used. Switching between styles is a free action and must be declared at the beginning of the combat round.
Fortress: In this style, one of the hammers is held close in the off hand and used to parry attacks as if it were a shield. When using this style, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC.
Meteor Storm: This style involves spinning both heads in complex patterns, occasionally smashing in from the side or coiling the rope around a forearm before launching a weight forward in a punching motion. This style allows the meteor hammer to be treated as a double weapon.
My final assessment is if you want to whack the crap out of something, take an exotic and/or two-handed weapon that deals more damage rather than take either. If you want to do the special maneuvers and have the ability to use martial weapons, take a flail (you will be able to use a shield as well). If you have Weapon Finesse and an Exotic Weapon Proficiency, take the chain. If you have Weapon Finesse, an Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Two Weapon Fighting, take the meteor hammer.
Originally, before I saw the stats on meteor hammer, I say that spiked chain "invalidates spiked chain." What I was after is a weapon that has reach and can also be used on adjacent targets. It seemed to me that spending a feat to get such was a fair price. Having Trip and Disarm available was just a bonus.
ReplyDeleteAlong comes PF and you STILL have to spend a feat to use it, but it has no reach. Supposedly they did this to nerf the Trip Monkey build. (See previous rant)
Now they have MH, which has reach any way you slice it, plus trip and disarm, PLUS 2 more potential abilities.
Breakdown:
Spiked Chain: costs a feat to use, NO reach, trip, disarm. Can expand into weapon finesse.
Meteor Hammer: costs a feat to use, has reach, trip, disarm, +1 shield bonus. Can expand into 2 weapon fighting (on a reach weapon!).
(Also, did I miss something? You can use Weapon Finess with the MH?)
Meteor Hammer is clearly better. At first level you can trip and disarm at a reach without the normal fear of AoE you get for not having Improved Trip or Disarm, plus get a +1 bonus to AC. All for the price of one feat.
Also; Ive never put much stock in the difference between a 2d4 or a d8 weapon. Fighters get enough bonuses to effectively make the die roll moot after the low levels. As far as "whacking the crap" out of something, the 1st level guy with the meteor hammer will thump the 1st lvl greatsword specialist every time (by virtue of the trip and disarm).
I stand corrected. The Weapon Finesse benefit does not apply to the Meteor Hammer.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the trip ir disarm are instead of doing damage. You can attempt to trip or disarm your opponent in place of a melee attack.
Right. But the point of trip is the shanking once youre prone. Standing up=AoE. Crawling away= AoE. And if I have reach all I do is 5ft step away and wait.
ReplyDelete